POLL - Should ATAR and HSC exams be scrapped in favour of American style holistic admissions? (1 Viewer)

Should ATAR and HSC exams be scrapped in favour of American style holistic admissions?


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coolcat6778

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The United States has developed an admissions model that attempts to evaluate applicants in a holistic manner. Rather than relying exclusively on grades and standardized test scores, many American universities consider a broader range of factors, including personal character, extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and contributions to one’s community. This is normally assessed through a student written essay and teachers' recommendation letters. This multidimensional approach acknowledges that academic metrics alone do not fully capture an individual’s potential or capacity for leadership and social impact.

Within this framework, policies such as affirmative action have historically been justified as mechanisms intended to expand access for historically marginalized communities. Proponents argue that these policies help ensure that institutions such as Harvard University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology enroll students from a wider range of socioeconomic and cultural backgrounds. The broader objective is to cultivate leadership within diverse communities and to ensure that elite institutions reflect the demographic complexity of the societies they serve.

Supporters of holistic admissions often argue that an overreliance on standardized testing can reinforce existing inequalities. Standardized examinations, they contend, may correlate strongly with socioeconomic resources such as access to tutoring, test preparation programs, and well-resourced schools. As a result, critics claim that such assessments can inadvertently privilege applicants who already possess structural advantages.

This debate becomes particularly visible when comparing admissions systems internationally. In Australia, admission to university is largely determined by the Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR), a percentile-based ranking derived primarily from performance in the Higher School Certificate examinations. While the ATAR provides a standardized and transparent metric for university admissions, critics argue that reducing students to a single numerical ranking may oversimplify the complexity of individual ability and potential.

A related criticism concerns the heavy reliance on high-stakes written examinations. Some educators argue that traditional pen-and-paper testing reflects an older model of education that emphasizes memorization and timed performance rather than practical problem-solving, collaboration, or creativity. Contemporary educational approaches—such as project-based learning, research presentations, and collaborative design work—may better reflect the kinds of skills required in modern professional environments.

For example, at University of Technology Sydney, there exists curricula that emphasize hands-on design projects, team collaboration, and research presentations aim to simulate real-world problem-solving contexts. These models attempt to evaluate students through sustained projects and applied work rather than a single examination session. Advocates believe that such methods provide a more accurate representation of a student’s initiative, creativity, and ability to work effectively with others.

From this perspective, university admissions processes might benefit from incorporating elements similar to those used by many American institutions. Personal essays, records of extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and community engagement could supplement academic performance when evaluating applicants. The goal would be to identify individuals who demonstrate intellectual ability alongside initiative, resilience, and civic responsibility.

Another concern raised in discussions of educational systems is the psychological and social impact of defining students primarily through numerical rankings. When a student’s identity becomes closely associated with a single percentile score, it may contribute to a culture in which personal worth appears tied to comparative academic performance. Critics argue that educational systems should emphasize broader personal development rather than narrowly defined competition.

Related debates occur around selective secondary schools, which admit students primarily through competitive examinations. Some critics question whether such systems disproportionately benefit families with greater access to tutoring and preparation resources. Others argue that selective schools should either transition to geographically based admissions or adopt broader evaluation criteria that include portfolios, teacher recommendations, and records of leadership or extracurricular activity.

Taken together, these arguments point toward a broader proposal for educational reform. Some advocates suggest reducing thedominance of high-stakes examinations, reconsidering percentile-based ranking systems, and expanding admissions criteria to include qualitative assessments of student character, initiative, and community involvement.

Under such a model, high school graduates might receive school-issued diplomas certifying completion of their studies, while universities would conduct more comprehensive evaluations of applicants. The objective would be to create an education system that recognizes students as multidimensional individuals rather than reducing them to a single numerical metric.

Ultimately, the broader philosophical question concerns how societies define merit. While intelligence and academic achievement are clearly important, many educators argue that qualities such as perseverance, creativity, ethical leadership, and civic engagement are equally significant. An admissions framework that integrates these dimensions may better reflect the diverse capabilities required for leadership and innovation in modern society.
 
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coolcat6778

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My atar: 79.95 *SEVEN*NINE***NINE*FIVE*
Do I think I'm stupider than 20.05% of people? Absolutely not!

I might have not gotten into UNSW or USYD engineering, but I realised this is all a psyop perpetuateed by corporations and capitalists (the capitalist-neofacsists at UNSW and USYD selling their "prestiege" as a business model, the corporations running the HSC exams, tutoing companies promising high atars the list goes on)
 
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coolcat6778

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I'm a strong supporter of marxist ideology. Fuck the ruling class.

To remove the ruling class, we need to get rid of elitism and meritocracy which causes it. Your worth needs to be based on your contributions to society and generally being a decent human-being, not your pseudo "intelligence". I am a strong opponent of IQ or ATAR... or really anything that attempts to rank peoples "smartness". Everyone is smart, everyone is smart as each other. We just all grow up in different environments that heavily influence us. In a socialist society, everyone would have equal access to resources. Meaning everyone will be smart as each other.

A big honorable fuck you to the capitalist company called "Pearson" which profits off gatekeeping learning resources such as textbooks AND ranking people by pseudoscience called "intelligence" (UCAT, MCAT, A Level other examinations). You aren't defined by numbers.

slay, coolcat6778 out 💅🏽🥰
 
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totally_screwed

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not reading allat
no matter how strongly you feel about it you can’t beat the system you just play along, a lot of people make it very far despite having an unimpressive atar, high school isn’t where people should peak and then stop trying and blame it on the system

america is also not the gold standard for education☠
 

s_0

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The United States has developed an admissions model that attempts to evaluate applicants in a holistic manner. Rather than relying exclusively on grades and standardized test scores, many American universities consider a broader range of factors, including personal character, extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and contributions to one’s community. This is normally assessed through a student written essay and teachers' recommendation letters. This multidimensional approach acknowledges that academic metrics alone do not fully capture an individual’s potential or capacity for leadership and social impact.

Within this framework, policies such as affirmative action have historically been justified as mechanisms intended to expand access for historically marginalized communities. Proponents argue that these policies help ensure that institutions such as Harvard University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology enroll students from a wider range of socioeconomic and cultural backgrounds. The broader objective is to cultivate leadership within diverse communities and to ensure that elite institutions reflect the demographic complexity of the societies they serve.

Supporters of holistic admissions often argue that an overreliance on standardized testing can reinforce existing inequalities. Standardized examinations, they contend, may correlate strongly with socioeconomic resources such as access to tutoring, test preparation programs, and well-resourced schools. As a result, critics claim that such assessments can inadvertently privilege applicants who already possess structural advantages.

This debate becomes particularly visible when comparing admissions systems internationally. In Australia, admission to university is largely determined by the Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR), a percentile-based ranking derived primarily from performance in the Higher School Certificate examinations. While the ATAR provides a standardized and transparent metric for university admissions, critics argue that reducing students to a single numerical ranking may oversimplify the complexity of individual ability and potential.

A related criticism concerns the heavy reliance on high-stakes written examinations. Some educators argue that traditional pen-and-paper testing reflects an older model of education that emphasizes memorization and timed performance rather than practical problem-solving, collaboration, or creativity. Contemporary educational approaches—such as project-based learning, research presentations, and collaborative design work—may better reflect the kinds of skills required in modern professional environments.

For example, at University of Technology Sydney, there exists curricula that emphasize hands-on design projects, team collaboration, and research presentations aim to simulate real-world problem-solving contexts. These models attempt to evaluate students through sustained projects and applied work rather than a single examination session. Advocates believe that such methods provide a more accurate representation of a student’s initiative, creativity, and ability to work effectively with others.

From this perspective, university admissions processes might benefit from incorporating elements similar to those used by many American institutions. Personal essays, records of extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and community engagement could supplement academic performance when evaluating applicants. The goal would be to identify individuals who demonstrate intellectual ability alongside initiative, resilience, and civic responsibility.

Another concern raised in discussions of educational systems is the psychological and social impact of defining students primarily through numerical rankings. When a student’s identity becomes closely associated with a single percentile score, it may contribute to a culture in which personal worth appears tied to comparative academic performance. Critics argue that educational systems should emphasize broader personal development rather than narrowly defined competition.

Related debates occur around selective secondary schools, which admit students primarily through competitive examinations. Some critics question whether such systems disproportionately benefit families with greater access to tutoring and preparation resources. Others argue that selective schools should either transition to geographically based admissions or adopt broader evaluation criteria that include portfolios, teacher recommendations, and records of leadership or extracurricular activity.

Taken together, these arguments point toward a broader proposal for educational reform. Some advocates suggest reducing thedominance of high-stakes examinations, reconsidering percentile-based ranking systems, and expanding admissions criteria to include qualitative assessments of student character, initiative, and community involvement.

Under such a model, high school graduates might receive school-issued diplomas certifying completion of their studies, while universities would conduct more comprehensive evaluations of applicants. The objective would be to create an education system that recognizes students as multidimensional individuals rather than reducing them to a single numerical metric.

Ultimately, the broader philosophical question concerns how societies define merit. While intelligence and academic achievement are clearly important, many educators argue that qualities such as perseverance, creativity, ethical leadership, and civic engagement are equally significant. An admissions framework that integrates these dimensions may better reflect the diverse capabilities required for leadership and innovation in modern society.
brother
Screenshot 2026-03-16 at 9.55.41 pm.png
 

C2H6O

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The United States has developed an admissions model that attempts to evaluate applicants in a holistic manner. Rather than relying exclusively on grades and standardized test scores, many American universities consider a broader range of factors, including personal character, extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and contributions to one’s community. This is normally assessed through a student written essay and teachers' recommendation letters. This multidimensional approach acknowledges that academic metrics alone do not fully capture an individual’s potential or capacity for leadership and social impact.

Within this framework, policies such as affirmative action have historically been justified as mechanisms intended to expand access for historically marginalized communities. Proponents argue that these policies help ensure that institutions such as Harvard University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology enroll students from a wider range of socioeconomic and cultural backgrounds. The broader objective is to cultivate leadership within diverse communities and to ensure that elite institutions reflect the demographic complexity of the societies they serve.

Supporters of holistic admissions often argue that an overreliance on standardized testing can reinforce existing inequalities. Standardized examinations, they contend, may correlate strongly with socioeconomic resources such as access to tutoring, test preparation programs, and well-resourced schools. As a result, critics claim that such assessments can inadvertently privilege applicants who already possess structural advantages.

This debate becomes particularly visible when comparing admissions systems internationally. In Australia, admission to university is largely determined by the Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (ATAR), a percentile-based ranking derived primarily from performance in the Higher School Certificate examinations. While the ATAR provides a standardized and transparent metric for university admissions, critics argue that reducing students to a single numerical ranking may oversimplify the complexity of individual ability and potential.

A related criticism concerns the heavy reliance on high-stakes written examinations. Some educators argue that traditional pen-and-paper testing reflects an older model of education that emphasizes memorization and timed performance rather than practical problem-solving, collaboration, or creativity. Contemporary educational approaches—such as project-based learning, research presentations, and collaborative design work—may better reflect the kinds of skills required in modern professional environments.

For example, at University of Technology Sydney, there exists curricula that emphasize hands-on design projects, team collaboration, and research presentations aim to simulate real-world problem-solving contexts. These models attempt to evaluate students through sustained projects and applied work rather than a single examination session. Advocates believe that such methods provide a more accurate representation of a student’s initiative, creativity, and ability to work effectively with others.

From this perspective, university admissions processes might benefit from incorporating elements similar to those used by many American institutions. Personal essays, records of extracurricular involvement, leadership experience, and community engagement could supplement academic performance when evaluating applicants. The goal would be to identify individuals who demonstrate intellectual ability alongside initiative, resilience, and civic responsibility.

Another concern raised in discussions of educational systems is the psychological and social impact of defining students primarily through numerical rankings. When a student’s identity becomes closely associated with a single percentile score, it may contribute to a culture in which personal worth appears tied to comparative academic performance. Critics argue that educational systems should emphasize broader personal development rather than narrowly defined competition.

Related debates occur around selective secondary schools, which admit students primarily through competitive examinations. Some critics question whether such systems disproportionately benefit families with greater access to tutoring and preparation resources. Others argue that selective schools should either transition to geographically based admissions or adopt broader evaluation criteria that include portfolios, teacher recommendations, and records of leadership or extracurricular activity.

Taken together, these arguments point toward a broader proposal for educational reform. Some advocates suggest reducing thedominance of high-stakes examinations, reconsidering percentile-based ranking systems, and expanding admissions criteria to include qualitative assessments of student character, initiative, and community involvement.

Under such a model, high school graduates might receive school-issued diplomas certifying completion of their studies, while universities would conduct more comprehensive evaluations of applicants. The objective would be to create an education system that recognizes students as multidimensional individuals rather than reducing them to a single numerical metric.

Ultimately, the broader philosophical question concerns how societies define merit. While intelligence and academic achievement are clearly important, many educators argue that qualities such as perseverance, creativity, ethical leadership, and civic engagement are equally significant. An admissions framework that integrates these dimensions may better reflect the diverse capabilities required for leadership and innovation in modern society.
Holy AI there’s no way coolcat would write this much in one go they’re too much of an English hater
 

C2H6O

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I might have not gotten into UNSW or USYD engineering, but I realised this is all a psyop perpetuateed by corporations and capitalists (the capitalist-neofacsists at UNSW and USYD selling their "prestiege" as a business model, the corporations running the HSC exams, tutoing companies promising high atars the list goes on)
Yes unsw and usyd is a lie, the older you get the more you realise nothing actually matters that much. hsc didn’t end up meaning a thing and all the stuff they sell you about it like spending tens of thousands on tutoring is a complete waste of money for a number you forget about a week later. Also unsw lowkey sucks ass it’s highly profit driven hence the annoying trimesters and half the students not being able to speak English. Just wanna remind yall that it’s never that deep and you can always drop out cause the world’s getting nuked in 5 years anyway it’s lowkey over. When the war is over no one’s gonna care if you went to unsw or Newcastle. So why am I busting my ass on the rickety ahh light rail every morning I have no idea. (Don’t mind me crashing out again i don’t even know why I’m back on this site)
 

ermmmmwhat

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as someone who was under the american syllabus from grade 1 - grade 9 before moving to sydney, trust me, yall do NOT wanna go through that. having to do 3 extracurriculurs, 10 sports, 6 volunteering programs, making businesses, starting initiatives AND getting that 4.0 GPA? nah idk who in their right mind would think that's a better system than one that focuses solely on academics to get into uni.
 

Study to success

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as someone who was under the american syllabus from grade 1 - grade 9 before moving to sydney, trust me, yall do NOT wanna go through that. having to do 3 extracurriculurs, 10 sports, 6 volunteering programs, making businesses, starting initiatives AND getting that 4.0 GPA? nah idk who in their right mind would think that's a better system than one that focuses solely on academics to get into uni.
Lowkey that would be more fun. And the academics are def easier there. For me it’s better than putting ur whole soul into academics cause at least ur forced to a take a break from studying
 

ermmmmwhat

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Lowkey that would be more fun. And the academics are def easier there. For me it’s better than putting ur whole soul into academics cause at least ur forced to a take a break from studying
yes academics are easier to some extent, but pouring out your efforts into extracurriculurs to get into uni does not make sense imo. like someone who did 10 million sports, volunteering, debating, etc. clubs would be valued over someone who gets a 4.5 gpa and does no ECAs. how is playing on the varsity school team going to help you in engineering in uni?

im not against a more hollistic approach, but i think when it is required to be hollistic in order to GET INTO uni, that's the problem - and that's what the american system advocates.
 

Study to success

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yes academics are easier to some extent, but pouring out your efforts into extracurriculurs to get into uni does not make sense imo. like someone who did 10 million sports, volunteering, debating, etc. clubs would be valued over someone who gets a 4.5 gpa and does no ECAs. how is playing on the varsity school team going to help you in engineering in uni?

im not against a more hollistic approach, but i think when it is required to be hollistic in order to GET INTO uni, that's the problem - and that's what the american system advocates.
Ig they want people who are all rounders and want to prepare people for the future outside of academics. By doing all these extra curriculars it allows u to build other skills like public speaking, working with others, etc which is kinda important for the workforce. Cause they don’t want people who can just do well in exams, they want to make employable people
 

carrotsss

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expensive private schools have tons of integrated extra curriculars which you’re practically forced to do, and even beyond that if your parents are well off they're much more likely to have the means to pay to get debating coaching or enter you into sports at all. in the US people even get coaching specifically for their uni entry stuff like the essays. academics you might get a pretty significant advantage with tutoring and better teachers (and it is quite correlated with socioeconomic status) but at the end of the day you can’t get away without putting in work, and if you’re not smart or locked in (both of which are good signs for uni) then you probably won’t do well.

obviously theres significant inequality for ATARs too, but there’s programs like MySydney to reduce this, although more needs to be done.

also I feel like the ATAR is obviously stressful for a lot of people but I don’t really think it’s any better in the US, they just have a less open system

I also don’t really like the way it introduces personal biases, like if the people reviewing applications are silently super misogynistic or racist then students could unfairly miss out without much transparency
 
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totally_screwed

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I would kms if I had to write essays to get into uni
also I think the culture in america is that you move out/interstate for uni bcz the better uni’s are likely not in your state, sounds fun and exciting but no thanks transitioning to uni is already a lot imagine having to start over alone in a new place and no friends on top of that and seeing your family twice a year, it’s different here bcz there’s decently good uni’s in every state like no one’s fighting to get in anywhere specifically but if they want to then sure, I think ppl care more about getting into the degree they want, but in the states there’s no choice but to move out at 18 if you actually want good uni opportunities

I love coming of age TV shows centred around the american high school to college experience though like who has watched never have I ever🫩 comfort show
 

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